Campbell, Portis, Snyder and Hef

Bang · Status: Offline

Campbell, Portis, Snyder and Hef

Yusuf06 · Status: Offline

I'd beg to differ with those of you who say that Snyderatto owes Campbell no trust and/or respect. To the contrary, I think JC is owed trust and respect, as does any player that keeps his nose clean and does everything the team has asked of him. Unfortunately I think many of you are equating trust and respect with elite compensation. All employees deserve the former whereas the latter should obviously be reserved for the best performers.

The fact is, many players don't develop overnight-especially QBs and receivers. So what is any developing player to think about our club if he does everything that the team asks of him only to be treated like crap when he doesn't immediately produce? After all, Colt Brennan probably should have felt almost as P.O.d about this incident as JC. But, I guess Brennan hasn't earned any respect yet either, huh? What about Kelly and Thomas?

Big woop you say? Well, what happens when that same player does blossom into a very good or dominant player? Will he decide that he wants to pursue greener pastures elsewhere with a team like the Fecals that actually values it's developmental players, both before and after they blow up? Or, will he decide to stay, reasoning that having now proven himself he can do whatever he wants off the field? After all, ownership set that tone so why should he act any differently when the leverage switches over to his side?

With regard to his on-field status, I'm not trying to say that the team owes JC anything more than the opportunity to sink or swim on his own merit-or lack of it. However, employees aren't stupid and they can sense when an organization doesn't care for them or respect them and they will respond accordingly.

Finally, those of you who are so sure that we should just discard JC like yesterday's trash should take a look at Drew Brees' career numbers. The light didn't come on for Brees until he'd been in the league for over three years and had started 28 or so games. Likewise, Eli Manning had started for almost four seasons before the light came on for him at the end of 2007. Campbell has been in the league for four years and started 36 games. Just sayin'....

Om · Status: Offline

Yusuf, no doubt there's a certain trust--perhaps also respect--owed to a player who does everything right and represents the organization well. I would submit that's true of any organization in our out of sports, and no less so in the NFL.

If you addressed the question and I missed it my apologies, but the one thing I'd ask is ... in this specific case, do you think the Redskins interest in Jay Cutler, and how they handled it, was disrespectful to Jason Campbell?

Bang · Status: Offline

I don't really think that recognizing he has been rather average is disrespecting him. Only a handful of teams have a QB that can't be traded, especially for a guy of Cutler's ability. I don't think that Campbell has the right to feel slighted by it, Peyton Manning would, but not JC yet.
I don't think they've disrespected him, they've tried to build an offense around him, and it should be pretty clear to him that it's time to produce.

And you can let a guy know that without disrespecting him.

~Bang

KB24 · Status: Offline

With all the criticism that's been thrown at Campbell, there are some factors here, I think, are being ignored. First, the front office hasn't exactly given him the tools to really be successful in the form of a younger, more effective front line and more than just Moss and Cooley as dependable receivers. Secondly, he's had to learn numerous systems and hasn't had a chance to get comfortable before being told, "We're going in another direction." Has he made mistakes? Yes. But, it's not like he's been on a level playing field compared to other quarterbacks who've been playing as long as he has. Frankly, I think the Jason Campbell issue just shows how dysfunctional this front office is and, I dare say, why the Redskins will never win anything of consequence under its operation. It's almost as if the FO wants him to fail.

Om · Status: Offline

I don't think there's a Redskins fan out there who doesn't hope you're right, KB. At least about everything but the FO wanting him to fail part.

But I think even Jason's most ardent supporters have to have some bit of concern by this point. Even granting all the obstacles and conditions you've cited, I think it's fair to say Jason has shown some tendencies that lead to questions. He is not very quick to read and deliver even when there is time to throw. And we've heard plenty of reports that he's late with the ball and/or just plain not seeing open guys more often than you'd like to think a big-time NFL QB would.

That said, we'll know pretty early on this season if he's made the kind of leap forward he's going to have to make if he's going to be the guy to lead this team for the next few years. I suspect I speak for just about every Skins fan out there when I say I've got my fingers crossed that this classy, quiet big-armed young man emerges this year---likely his last chance---as the guy so many of us thought he might be all along.

Yusuf06 · Status: Offline

Om wrote:

Yusuf, no doubt there's a certain trust--perhaps also respect--owed to a player who does everything right and represents the organization well. I would submit that's true of any organization in our out of sports, and no less so in the NFL.

If you addressed the question and I missed it my apologies, but the one thing I'd ask is ... in this specific case, do you think the Redskins interest in Jay Cutler, and how they handled it, was disrespectful to Jason Campbell?

In a word, sorta. biggrin

What I mean is this. If Cutler were a player with an established track record of greatness, or even very goodness, then I don't think there's an issue. However, Cutler is a guy that has a corresponding weakness wherever Campbell has a strength and vice versa. So for example, Campbell threw too few TDs, but Cutler has a tendency to throw too many INTs. Campbell is too "laid back" but Cutler seems like a bit of a whiney beyotch.

As such, we were looking at dumping Campbell for what amounted to a crapshoot on his polar opposite. Given the fact that Cutler wasn't/isn't an established star, I think it was somewhat disrepectful. After all, all you can ask of a guy is that he work hard, keep his mouth shut, and do what's asked of him. In return, I think you owe him a fair shot at growing into a legit starter. If he doesn't make it after a reasonable amount of time, then you make a clean break and part ways. AFTER this season, whether Campbell finished the season as the starter or not, was the time to do that, not now. And certainly not for a marginal player.

Now I admit that when the rumors about this first surfaced about a month ago, I did give it some thought. However, I rather quickly changed my mind after considering the pros and cons of the trade. I'd have expected a similar decision from a responsible, patient Skins F.O. Unfortunately, we seem to favor knee jerk, one-off solutions rather than charting a reasoned, systematic course towards objectives.

KB24 · Status: Offline

Om wrote:

I don't think there's a Redskins fan out there who doesn't hope you're right, KB. At least about everything but the FO wanting him to fail part.

But I think even Jason's most ardent supporters have to have some bit of concern by this point. Even granting all the obstacles and conditions you've cited, I think it's fair to say Jason has shown some tendencies that lead to questions. He is not very quick to read and deliver even when there is time to throw. And we've heard plenty of reports that he's late with the ball and/or just plain not seeing open guys more often than you'd like to think a big-time NFL QB would.

That said, we'll know pretty early on this season if he's made the kind of leap forward he's going to have to make if he's going to be the guy to lead this team for the next few years. I suspect I speak for just about every Skins fan out there when I say I've got my fingers crossed that this classy, quiet big-armed young man emerges this year---likely his last chance---as the guy so many of us thought he might be all along.

I'm a huge Jason Campbell fan and I agree he does need to step up his game. My point is the front office hasn't exactly given him the tools to be successful and he's being judged by an FO that, frankly, couldn't evaluate its way out of a paper bag. The way Danny and Vinny went crazy over Jay Cutler proves that. You only try to make that trade for a Tom Brady or a Ben Roethlisberger -- someone with a proven track record and a Super Bowl ring or two. And now the word on the street is that they're seriously considering drafting USC quarterback Marc Sanchez with the #13 pick. I just have my doubts as to whether JC will indeed get a fair chance to prove his talent here because of this franchise's dysfunction.

Bang · Status: Offline

This OL that everyone maligns is the same OL that had a RB being discussed as a possible MVP at the mid point last year.
Then injuries hit the tackle position BIG time, and production tailed off.
Saying Campbell has not been given the tools is incorrect. His line, while getting a bit long in the tooth, has been very good, and at times have been downright dominant, especially in the run game, which as we all know, opens up the pass.
Clinton Portis has set team record after team record, is arguably the best blocking tailback in the league to handle a blitz, can catch, and has a heart as big as the sun. Cooley is one of the best pass catching TEs in the league.
His wide receivers are an area that one can complain about, but the FO spent 2 of their first 3 picks last season to address specifically that concern.

The team has been built around him. Some pieces need work, as always. we could use OL depth, and we could use some new blood to groom to come in. (Depth or not, there aren't many teams that are going to survive a stretch of five games that include Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Dalls, and the Giants once both tackles go down.)

I want to see JC stop with the constant double double clutch clutch of the damn ball ball. He does it all the time time and it drives me NUTS NUTS. A double clutching QB is a QB that is unsure of either the play, the receiver, or himself. That doesn't happen because of pressure, and If I had to make a guess, I'd say he's unsure of himself.

You can protect a guy all day, but if he isn't sure of himself, it's not going to matter. I hope I see the strides out of him this year. the addage is that the third year starting is when the lights come on. I've seen them flicker, but I want to see them burn bright and constant.

~Bang

-- Edited by Bang on Monday 13th of April 2009 11:06:15 AM

Yusuf06 · Status: Offline

You're mostly right that our line was pretty good run blocking Bang, especially early last season. However, CPo got way too many of those yards after contact and more yards than I'd like in spite of the OL, not because of them. Even worse, they were a liability in pass pro, Jansen *cough, cough* Jansen. This forced Zorn to keep Cooley and/or Portis in to protect JC way too much. The opposition quickly figured out that you blitz or otherwise pressure the QB to remove Cooley and/or CPo as a threat, double Moss and the whole thing grinds to a halt.

I agree JC holds the ball too long. That was obvious on all too many plays last season. However, he really doesn't have all that many weapons at his disposal and our OL situation takes away some of those he does have.

-- Edited by Yusuf06 on Monday 13th of April 2009 12:27:39 PM

Hog Fever · Status: Offline

The O-line is full of veteran guys. On one level that’s good because they know what it takes to get things done in the NFL. That said there isn’t any way to beat father time. Our O-line is old. Mid season is about the time where injury issues started to hit. Younger guys are simply better suited for the grind.

Last Season:

Jansen – 33

Thomas – 33

Rabach – 31

Kendall – 35

Samuels – 31

This season:

Jansen – 34

Thomas – 34

Rabach – 32

Dockery – 29

Samuels – 32

Heyer ? – 25

Rinehart ? - 25

This is not a recipe for sustained success on the O-line. Expecting 16 good games out of guys this age is fantasy. The young guys we do have never see the field for whatever reason.

-- Edited by Hog Fever on Monday 13th of April 2009 02:05:20 PM

KB24 · Status: Offline

Hog Fever wrote:

The O-line is full of veteran guys. On one level that’s good because they know what it takes to get things done in the NFL. That said there isn’t any way to beat father time. Our O-line is old. Mid season is about the time where injury issues started to hit. Younger guys are simply better suited for the grind.
Last Season:
Jansen – 33
Thomas – 33
Rabach – 31
Kendall – 35
Samuels – 31

This season:
Jansen – 34
Thomas – 34
Rabach – 32
Dockery – 29
Samuels – 32

Heyer ? – 25
Rinehart ? - 25
This is not a recipe for sustained success on the O-line. Expecting 16 good games out of guys this age is fantasy. The young guys we do have never see the field for whatever reason.

-- Edited by Hog Fever on Monday 13th of April 2009 02:05:20 PM

And don't forget, Thomas had off-season neck surgery. So, we don't know how effective he's going to be from the start. The FO has focused way too much on the "sexy" positions and hasn't done its due diligence is building depth on the lines. When you look at the ages of our projected starters, that deficiency shows.